Dummy Problem

Hey Donna,

I just read your post after already replying to Karen/acidrascus, but a lot of what I said to her you may find of interest. If you've been scanning for a while, you may even have seen some of what I've posted at other times.

Anyways, goodluck with your no dummy reinserts project!! grin I'm sure it'll work out just fine. Check out my other post if you want to and if I can help at all just let me know.

Take care and I'll be thinking of you. Be strong!! grin

Smiles!
Shani

Hi Katrina,

It can be so hard hey?? Doing what you think is right but feel so bad about doing (ie cc!). You may already have read the last couple of posts that I've just done, but I didn't actually mention how much of a problem we ended uphaving with feeds and stuff too. Because I was so tired and desparate for sleep with Alynta waking all the time, I started feeding her (thinking she must be hungry) and eventually got to the stage of having to feed her everytime she woke at night (sometimes up to 8 times but no less than three). Then she'd feed in spits and spats all day too.

The Baby Wise book I metioned, talks about sleep patterns being learned and that hunger patterns are also directly connected to the sleep patterns. Your bub will most likely contiue having big feeds at night as long as you're offering. Alynta certainly wasn't going to give them up, (and she was 8mnths by that stage) but from the time I read the book and started using it, she was sleeping right through in a matter of days. And even though she was ready for a feed first thing, she wasn't desparate for it or anything. It was just a habit that she'd gotten into.

Anyway, hope you don't feel as though I'm lecturing you - I can just really relate to what you're going through. I felt like I was going to go crazy trying to figure out the answer.

As a matter of interest, in some studies they did of ppl using the Baby Wise methods, something like 96 or 98% of all the babies were sleeping through by 16weeks (sleeping through being defined as I think it was 8hours solid) and they included both male and female, healthy, sick, premmie, and with disabilities (things like downs syndrome etc).

Hope this is helpful, if there's anythingelse I can do, please let me know.

Take care and sorry it's so long. I hope things improve for you soon,

Smiles! smile
Shanna

Thanx Shani .... I have read various other of your posts and they are always practical and comforting (to the sleep deprived!). Great to hear of success stories .... some days/nights it feels like our household will never know a full nights sleep again. I remember fondly my last full nights sleep in approx. May 2004 when 8 months pregnant! Ah, memories ....

I actually ended up visiting the Growing Families Australia office here in Perth (about 5 min's from my home) to purchase 'On Becoming Babywise' book ... only thing is I grabbed Step 2 - from 5 - 15 months, rather than Step 1 where sleep & feeding is discussed. Think we need to back track.

Have purchased numerous other books too (Sleep Right, Sleep Tight, It's time to Sleep, CD with womb sounds) - yep - I'm a publishers dream. We've just got to be strong and apply now. Think we parents have formed an easy habit of getting up and putting dummy back in when Cooper whimpers - he doesn't actually cry. Both child and parents require behaviour modification program.

Putting Cooper's sleep into a feeding context, rather than just dummy reinserts - his dream feed at 11.00pm'ish is always his biggest (260 ml's formula) whereas during the day he has approx. 4 x 200ml's & 1 feed of fruit (11.00am'ish) & 1 feed vegies (6.30pm'ish) - before bath & bed at 7.00 - 7.30 'ish.

Maybe if we slowly reduce his dream feed it will encourage him to drink/eat more during the day??
& thus improve sleep pattern? (so many variables - it's a juggle to figure out .... now I understand the wisdom parents gain via their experiences)

Anyway - last night was a shocker .... so when my brain is less fuzzy, may re-visit books on cc ready for our Xmas project. Thanx for support and thoughts - great to know other mum's understand.

: ) Donna

Goodmorning!!

It was good to hear back from you so soon Donna!

I know exactly what you mean when you say you feel as though things will never be back to normal. I can definitely say that there is hope though - We're proof! Now I'm the only one to blame if I don't get enough sleep!! (which happens a bit too often - naughty Mum)

You're sooooo lucky to have a GFA office there!!! I'm very jealous!! grin You're right though, you would find it far more helpful going back to Baby Wise 1. The second volume is almost like a companion or extension of the first. You'll find it very helpful later on, but the first one is where they really get into all the foundational stuff.

Well, you may be a publishers dream, but really it's just great that you want so much to get it right. And I have no doubt it's as much for Cooper as for yourself.

I really like the way that you put it when you said both child AND parents need a behaviour modification program!! That is so true, I just never thought of it that way. It really does describe perfectly what had to happen with us though.

Cooper would be about 4mnths now yes?? BW1 would be perfect for you at this stage, because you're right at the point where they say most bubs will sleep through by. Mostly they talk as though you're using the program from birth, but they do have a section that specifically talks about starting late and how to go about it. it was harder for me to do what they suggested with Alynta being 8months when we started, but it shuold be a cinch with Cooper if you follow their suggestions.

You poor thing having a terrible night - I really feel for you. You're so welcome, I happy to talk anytime and help in any way that I can. Love to know how things progress. Wishing you good sleep! smile

Smiles!
Shan

Hi All Mum's with bubs with the dummy problem.....didn't I start a common problem!!. Sorry I haven't been online of late, otherwise I would have responded sooner.

I was like one of the other mum's and thought I must have been the only one going through this.....that is why this forum is so excellent, you know you aren't on your own and can chat to people going through the same problems!!!

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm thinking of all you mum's as I know what you are going through. Shanni has offered a lot of great tips which is fantastic, I just want to reinterate that even though we did a modified version of CC it maybe not for everyone. Shani is right, once you have the foundations in place then you have the confidence to do it. I won't lie, it was hard for me (as I'm quite a softy) however I needed to do it for all three of us.

Firstly I ruled out that my bub wasn't waking up due to hunger, then I got her checked over by the health nurse and even went to a doctor before I started modified CC just so I knew I had ruled everything out.

Then as I explained in my other post, we put our bub down with her dummy (as I didn't want to take it off her completely.....each to their own but as I said I am a softy).

Then when she lost it we started the CC. We went in 2,4,6,8 & then every 10mins. I stroked her cheek, told her I love her and that it is sleep time and then walked out. It is heartbreaking but we didn't know what else to do after 3 weeks of waking every 20-30mins. We called it modified as we didn't stick to the book/advice completely, we went in when we felt the need but tried to stay as strong as possible.

When we addressed the dummy problem, we also addressed the wrapping issue (thought we would do everything at once) as she couldn't put herself to sleep unless she was wrapped which was getting quite hard on warm days.

To Karen, Katrina and Donna (and other mum's) all I can suggest is that you go with what your instinct is. Modified CC may not be an option you want to pursue which is fine, we just decided we would give it a try. We had excellent support from our health nurse which we are very fortunate, if we had a problem we could ring her the next day and ask as many questions as we want.

I've been lucky with the feeding, I use to do a roll-over feed at 10.00pm but bub dropped that herself just before the dummy issue arose.

I feel very lucky that our bub goes down at 7.00pm and doesn't wake until 6.30am. I know we will have a bad night here and there, and there may be nights where she doesn't sleep due to teething, illness etc but I now know that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I wish you all well, and you are all in my thoughts. I hope it has been of help.

Cheers!!!

Hello Shani ....

Doing my morning email check & so happy to see replies of support from both yourself and Learning Mum.

Cooper's 5.5 months (born 26.6.04 .... yep 4 days b4 the govt $3000 benefit kicked in .... tried holding on as long as I could!! Ha Ha)

Feeling refreshed today as my mum is on annual leave and babysat Cooper while I had an arvo snooze yesterday & last night I grabbed sleep from 9.00pm to first wake up at 2.30am (yep - 5.5 hours is like a good night sleep for me now.) So lucky to have such great family support & Cooper is a delightful happy baby.

I will back track & grab Babywise 1 .... lovely couple run the Perth office (little bit religious though .... not that there's anything wrong with that)

It is all about behaviour modification (BC / Before Cooper, I assisted various clients with different programs in my role as a Psychologist) .... Now it's all about applying at home .... but is so different when it's your baby and so hard to hear him upset / see him tired and yawning - doesn't help being sleep deprived as well. We try to do the right thing, but occasionally the pattern becomes a problem.

Have decided when hubby is on annual leave in 2 weeks - we'll dedicate a few days to helping Cooper improve his sleep & support each other.

Love to report back in a months time about how well Cooper is now sleeping (fingers crossed) .... Thank you again for the support & sharing info / own stories from other mum's - lets you normalise things & know that others have been there & come through the other side.

: ) Donna

Just a quick update.

We decided to start cc with the 1.00pm sleep this arvo after Cooper stayed at his grandma's last night - so we parents could get a good nights sleep. (Yay - my first all night sleep 11.00pm - 9.00am since the 24 June 2004!) Cooper actually did a 11.00pm - 4.15am - so grandma got some good sleep too.

It just took 34 minutes of crying ... but then Cooper has put himself to sleep WITH NO DUMMY. We're determined to see this through & am about to put all dummies away. The little guy is going cold turkey .... rather than feeling like evil parents we're focusing on the long term benefits for Cooper (& us).

Cooper will be smothered with kisses & love & be given a pile of puree pear when he wakes up!

Here's to success .... just got to be strong & stick with it. Thanx again to the forum for support.

: ) Donna

Hi Donna,

I'm so glad to here that you got to have a great night's sleep when Cooper stayed at his grandma's, doesn't it make the world of difference!!!

I'm glad that the CC seems to be working for you. As you said, it is hard but the benefits for bub (and parents) is the main aim.

I really hope Cooper continues to have great success with his sleep patterns. You should be really proud of yourselves....but especially HIM!!!

Congratulations and thanks for keeping us updated.

Hey Donna,

Sorry about the delay in response. Have had a very full weekend. Great to hear from you. Thanks for your reply.

I'm so glad that you've got such a great network of support around you. It makes all the difference hey? Let me know how you go with Baby Wise 1 when you get it.

It is amazing how different things are when you're trying to put something into place in your own life hey. I guess we all almost always find it easiest to tell others how they should be doing things and not so easy to even do those same things in our own lives. That's why it was so important to me to have a really strong understanding of the 'whys' and the end results of what I do with Alynta now.

I really think you guys are going to do just fine though. You can obviously see how important this is and that'll give you the resolve that you need to follow it through.

Great to hear how well things went with leaving Cooper at Grandma's too. It will have made things easier for you guys to start off well rested. You guys are to doing so well already! No doubt he knows how much you love him despite the temporary unpleasentness of missing his dummy and as you said, that will get him through no worries. Does he love puree pear?? smile

Looking forward to continuing to hear how you're all going, and thinking of all of you. Best wishes. Hope you're having a great day!

Smiles!
Shanna

Thanx Shanna and Learning Mum for your well wishes. Is so lovely to receive.

We already feel like a different household today thanx to 'no dummies' ... Cooper only woke twice last night - 3.00am (took 20 minutes to resettle & some crying) & 5.00am (tucked him in with his sheet & he fell back to sleep until 7.10am .... wow a sleep in!) Last week I was getting up on average 5 - 12 times in a night, just to put the dummy back in!!

At 3.00am I just kept patting him, stroked his cheek (little guy tried to suckle my finger) and gave him a drink of water .. he then rolled over back to sleep. He woke up so bright this morning - was doing huge jumps in his jolly jumper & big smiles.

This morning Cooper has gone down without a sound & just rolled over with his sheet tucked around him (he has even slept past his usual 40 minute catnap time). Looks like the dummy was waking him up at the end of a sleep cycle.

We are so lucky to have a great network around us - really makes the difference. I'd say being a mum is the harder job than being a Psych! My hubby and mum have been brilliant ... couldn't imagine doing this on my own .... I have the deepest respect for single mum's or mum's isolated from family & friends.

Cooper LOVES any food ... I make up vegies (pumpkin, sweet potato, carrot) and fruit (apple, pear) .... teething rusks make a great mess too! We've mixed in advocado, ricotta, cereal or yoghurt to spice things up a bit at times. Haven't found one food he wouldn't eat - wasn't too fussed on 1 canned baby food (I tasted it & was like yukky pea soup ... don't blame him!) He sits like a little baby bird with his mouth open ready for the next 'choo choo' train of food to come!

Yep - having a great day .... go to yummy mummy's exercise class this arvo with some energy for a change!

: ) Donna

Sorry - now I'm hogging this post topic. But - so happy again after another nights sleep.

Cooper went down at 7.20pm (about 10 mins of cc to settle), his daddy woke him at 10.00pm for a dream feed - 260ml's and straight back to sleep & he made it through to 6.00am!! Cooper has just gone down for his morning nap with no crying at all.

Giving away the dummy 'cold turkey' has worked for our little guy & hope the other mum's have good results too. Think Cooper adapted so quickly to cc techniques as we kind of half used them when getting him from bassinet to cot when he was 3 months.

Thanks again to the forum mums.

: ) Donna

hi all,
just wanted to let you all know that Jada has been sleeping through the night for the past 4 nights after only 1 night not giving her the dummy after she fell asleep. I just settled without using the dummy, (did take a lot longer than just throwing the dummy back in), but it has worked wonders, & now she only wakes once or not at all.
I would encourage other mums to try not offering the dummy during the night, as this is what was causing jada to wake every 30mins.
please let me know if I can help in anyway.
I am just super glad to be getting full nights sleep again.
thanks for your help shani, donna & learning mum.
xoxo